@Le_Patzer83 said in #4:
> Lenin was a moron trying to make it work in an economically backwards 1917 Russia, with predictable results. The real tragedy was that Marx sought economic emancipation. He sought greater economic freedom for the masses, not a police state and mass repression. He would have been horrified if he would have lived to see where Lenin would take his ideas.
Here I strongly disagree with your post. Lenin was by no means a moron, and while I don't deny that the living conditions during that time were pretty horrible, this doesn't mean that Lenin's ideas are inherently false or wrong. Lenin's idea was that in an economically advanced country at the time (e.g France, Germany etc. in which Marx predicted the initial revolution), where the proletariat was more advanced and closer to achieving class-consciousness, the bourgeoisie was also stronger as a class. Conversely, the opposite was true for Russia at that time. And who knows, maybe that idea has truth to it, as over 100 years have passed since then and it seems the revolution is still far away.
> So no, communism is not the answer for the United States, lol! Half the country goes into a red scare over a guy like Bernie Sanders, and he isn't anywhere near being a communist. By Canadian standards, he is a left wing moderate.
As a result of what? What makes you think that communism is not the answer for the US? I'm not saying it has to happen right now or even in 100 years but a revolution would be the long-term goal, so to say.
> Lenin was a moron trying to make it work in an economically backwards 1917 Russia, with predictable results. The real tragedy was that Marx sought economic emancipation. He sought greater economic freedom for the masses, not a police state and mass repression. He would have been horrified if he would have lived to see where Lenin would take his ideas.
Here I strongly disagree with your post. Lenin was by no means a moron, and while I don't deny that the living conditions during that time were pretty horrible, this doesn't mean that Lenin's ideas are inherently false or wrong. Lenin's idea was that in an economically advanced country at the time (e.g France, Germany etc. in which Marx predicted the initial revolution), where the proletariat was more advanced and closer to achieving class-consciousness, the bourgeoisie was also stronger as a class. Conversely, the opposite was true for Russia at that time. And who knows, maybe that idea has truth to it, as over 100 years have passed since then and it seems the revolution is still far away.
> So no, communism is not the answer for the United States, lol! Half the country goes into a red scare over a guy like Bernie Sanders, and he isn't anywhere near being a communist. By Canadian standards, he is a left wing moderate.
As a result of what? What makes you think that communism is not the answer for the US? I'm not saying it has to happen right now or even in 100 years but a revolution would be the long-term goal, so to say.
When AI/Automation & insane productivity increases makes the worker obsolete - the only answer is a form of collective boon/communism.
Initially those gains have & will be continually focused on the elite and create strife & suffering of different sorts in the lower classes, but there will come a point of overabundance, and omnipresence of production & technology overwhelms any potential greed in its general sense... While there are still many other factors at play - I think this notion will play out over the next 100 years.
Initially those gains have & will be continually focused on the elite and create strife & suffering of different sorts in the lower classes, but there will come a point of overabundance, and omnipresence of production & technology overwhelms any potential greed in its general sense... While there are still many other factors at play - I think this notion will play out over the next 100 years.
@salmon_rushdie said in #13:
The sad thing is, if you'd say that 100 years back in 1923, we are now in that future. By 1923 standards, we are overabundant, with omnipresence of production and technology. And here we are.
The sad thing is, if you'd say that 100 years back in 1923, we are now in that future. By 1923 standards, we are overabundant, with omnipresence of production and technology. And here we are.
@m011235 said in #14:
> The sad thing is, if you'd say that 100 years back in 1923, we are now in that future. By 1923 standards, we are overabundant, with omnipresence of production and technology. And here we are.
Possibly. I think that in 1923 people didn't have a notion of resource scarcity - nor the notion of computation - they thought that we would be able to create and extract ourselves into post-scarcity - Now the notion is that we will become efficient in both resource usage, brainpower and analysis and production to create a post-scarcity situation.
I think our current outlook is a lot more realistic - the beginning of the dream in that era was a bit of a pipe dream that would be realized by the excesses of industry.
Now we are realizing the excesses of information and technology in a different way - and the third era so to speak has yet to reveal itself.
But from a different standpoint - I would say that the world has improved vastly over the last 100 years in many ways - of course it goes in both directions... but the world is at the least - vastly more survivable for the average person.
> The sad thing is, if you'd say that 100 years back in 1923, we are now in that future. By 1923 standards, we are overabundant, with omnipresence of production and technology. And here we are.
Possibly. I think that in 1923 people didn't have a notion of resource scarcity - nor the notion of computation - they thought that we would be able to create and extract ourselves into post-scarcity - Now the notion is that we will become efficient in both resource usage, brainpower and analysis and production to create a post-scarcity situation.
I think our current outlook is a lot more realistic - the beginning of the dream in that era was a bit of a pipe dream that would be realized by the excesses of industry.
Now we are realizing the excesses of information and technology in a different way - and the third era so to speak has yet to reveal itself.
But from a different standpoint - I would say that the world has improved vastly over the last 100 years in many ways - of course it goes in both directions... but the world is at the least - vastly more survivable for the average person.
Communism is fantastic. Everyone is equal, right?
All the pigs walk on four legs... apart from those that walk on two.
Now admit, do you want to be the pig that walks on four legs or two?
All the pigs walk on four legs... apart from those that walk on two.
Now admit, do you want to be the pig that walks on four legs or two?
@Sweep-the-Leg said in #5:
> doctrinated into neoliberal capitalist ideology through nearly every social institution, especially education and mass media. The billionaire oligarchy has managed to get the American people to go along with the status quo by making it seem like the best course of action and the natural order of things.
I didn't understand 50% of that.
> doctrinated into neoliberal capitalist ideology through nearly every social institution, especially education and mass media. The billionaire oligarchy has managed to get the American people to go along with the status quo by making it seem like the best course of action and the natural order of things.
I didn't understand 50% of that.
@EnBeeTea
> lichess.org, a hippie communist chess server for drug fueled atheists.
From the official github page of Lichess. But maybe you prefer chess.com,it's free market after all.
> lichess.org, a hippie communist chess server for drug fueled atheists.
From the official github page of Lichess. But maybe you prefer chess.com,it's free market after all.
> but there will come a point of overabundance
There will come a time when you can even take off your clothes when you dance...
That is, if we don't destroy ourselves before that.
There will come a time when you can even take off your clothes when you dance...
That is, if we don't destroy ourselves before that.
@Waiting4BirnamWood said in #8:
> I think most people don't want an one-party totalitarian state like the Soviet Union, yet increasing social inequality in the US and Europe is creating more and more political conflicts which may endanger democracy. It is neither necessary nor useful that Coca Cola is brought under the public ownership of the US government. But social rights (e. g. adequate housing) must be strengthed.
With the system we have in the Nordics you get the inequality fixed plus a strong economy without the obvious downsides of Communism.
Communish has wrecked every place it was tryed in, it's so weird anybody still is in favor of it.
It's like if a drug killed every single patient you ever tried to cure with it, but some doctors are still like "hey, maybe it's going to benefit the next guy!".
> I think most people don't want an one-party totalitarian state like the Soviet Union, yet increasing social inequality in the US and Europe is creating more and more political conflicts which may endanger democracy. It is neither necessary nor useful that Coca Cola is brought under the public ownership of the US government. But social rights (e. g. adequate housing) must be strengthed.
With the system we have in the Nordics you get the inequality fixed plus a strong economy without the obvious downsides of Communism.
Communish has wrecked every place it was tryed in, it's so weird anybody still is in favor of it.
It's like if a drug killed every single patient you ever tried to cure with it, but some doctors are still like "hey, maybe it's going to benefit the next guy!".
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